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Elohim



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 4891
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some things are more important than concerts. I already paid you my condolences in a private mail, but also on the board I would like to wish you lots of strenght in these difficult times. I have had my fair share with loss (actually I am orphaned right now) and I (sadly) know there will be more to come.

To me Black Sabbath is this huge entity in metal, that actually defined the idiom that we all have come to know as metal. The basis for that has been laid in the seventies with Ozzy. Those albums are most dear to me. Especially the first five, but 'Sabotage' and 'Never say die' do have their moments. 'Technical Ecstasy' has always been my least favorite of the Ozzy era.
Dio on the other hand, was a singer with much more ability and capability, which lead to a more varied sound in Sabbath, I regard the Dio albums more melodic and less doomy (although the doomy aspect of Black Sabbath can be found in all their releases). I even like the 'Dehumanizer' release they did back in the nineties.
But there is something about 'Born Again' that makes it a special Sabbath album in my opinion. Almost everything after that album never cut it in my eyes.
The last release of Heaven and Hell was really good. 'The Devil You Know' is an album that regularly makes my playlist.
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spiral architect 67



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: genoa, Italy

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i don't think the dio albums had more variety, quite the opposite, with dio they recycled themselves as a simple heavy metal band for the eighties, whilst in fact, in the seventies they were much more, a band willing to experiment and always pushing themselves. Their albums had progressive structure, orchestral arrangementes, jazz touches, acoustic songs, electronic parts, etc. All this got lost after heaven & hell, except for born again, that I consider in spirit and sound much closer to original sabbath. I also consider ITP very similar in spirit to sabbath bloody sabbath, both albums very experimental and brilliant, two masterpieces and the peaks of these two great bands careers.
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DrMorbid
Triptykon.net


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 5420
Location: Parts Unknown.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I also consider ITP very similar in spirit to sabbath bloody sabbath, both albums very experimental and brilliant,


I have said the same thing in conversation to my friends. I don't know if SBS was received similarly, but despite first hearing it in the mid-late 90's, it was an absolute revelation for me. It was one of those albums that kept me interested in metal as the field and community was shrinking.

I had similar feelings first hearing ITP. It was the development of those ideas, not necessarily the heaviness all the time. Reading back on that era, I am amazed that Sabbath pulled a breakthrough like that out. There were tensions, massive amounts of cocaine and other drugs that had become problems even a couple albums earlier, management troubles, etc.

Somewhat similarly (not the drug part), Celtic Frost had their own breakthrough with ITP, as they faced massive issues, as outlined in Are You Morbid?, with respect to management and the record company. It almost seems like them pulling the end product off was a miracle.
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Elohim



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 4891
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to disagree. Dio is a far more technical singer than Ozzy will ever be. Just his voice alone made the Sabbath sound more versatile. We will never know wether or not Sabbath would become more experimental with Dio since the good man left the band after two years.
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Deni



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 770
Location: São Paulo - Brazil

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrMorbid, SigSwat551, Baphomet, Zane, Knuck, ApolloXI & Elohim:

Thank you very much for the kind words. It really makes me feel better in this hard moment of my life. It's good to know I have true friends arond the world. I will never forget it!

Baphomet:
Thank you very very much for the links. I'm really enjoying with them!

Dio has been always one of my favorite vocalists. If I'm not mistake, "Holy Diver" would be the next Black Sabbath studio album after "Mob Rules". But, as we know, Dio has left the band after the release of "Live Evil".

Deni
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ApolloXI



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 201
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My personal view is that the best Sabs material was the six albums up to and including Sabotage. By that point the band had become almost completely dysfunctional. The Dio era was a different vibe, less appealing to me, and whatever ridiculous shambling celebrity mess Ozzy has become, one cannot deny his influence on those early records. Master of Reality must be one of the most directly influential albums ever recorded by anyone, ever.

Here's a nice article by the lovely Seth Man about the original version of War Pigs over on Julian Cope's web site:

http://www.headheritage.co.uk/unsung/thebookofseth/1710
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Deni



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 770
Location: São Paulo - Brazil

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Paranoid" was my first BS album and I always thought "War Pigs" was/is a song ahead of its time.
No doubt, the first three BS albums contain most of riffs and dynamic rhytms those have influenced the 80's metal scene, from Venom/Anthrax/Metallica/Slayer to Trouble/Candlemass/Cirith Ungol. No need to say that Hellhammer and Celtic Frost have been influenced by them too.

No considering my special sympathy for "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" and Sabotage", I still think these albums contains the best vocals performances by Mr. Osbourne.

Deni
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Opolus



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 344
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ApolloXI wrote:
Here's a nice article by the lovely Seth Man about the original version of War Pigs over on Julian Cope's web site:
http://www.headheritage.co.uk/unsung/thebookofseth/1710


Thanx for that link, surely an interesting read!

My two cents, SABBATH did no wrong whatsoever up until and including "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath", only rivalled in its consistency (yet maybe only, if you check the timeline, talking about 1970 - '73!!) by the early output of IRON MAIDEN! After that they somehow lost the surreal cutting edge effect in my book, although most of "Sabotage" has defining moments as well, whereas "Never Say Die" goes severely downhill after the first 3 songs. Always had a soft spot for "Technical Ecstasy", I have to admit, not the least due that one featuring one of my best loved numbers, namely "You Won't Change Me". Eventually you can't give all the 4 members enough credit for those early records, Ozzy's over-the-top singing really reaches regions in your soul, VERY few singers do or did, THAT brickwall-yet-fluent rhythm section of Bill Ward and Geezer Butler and let's not get started about thee man, Tony Iommi here, right? I really do get sick, when so many other more unknown (at times even -admittedly- great) bands from that period get namechecked as being "even better than SABBATH", from folks, just for curiosity's and cult factor's sake! One riff from the early 70s blows those impostors into the dust in the blink of a second!! "Master Of Reality" still has the HEAVIEST guitartone EVER...nearly...second only to HELLHAMMER's "Apocalyptic Raids"! Razz
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Deni



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: São Paulo - Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ApolloXI wrote:

Quote:
Good to see some 'Sabotage' love.


Isn't "Symptom Of The Universe" one of the greatest heavy metal anthems?

Deni
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ApolloXI



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 201
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deni wrote:
ApolloXI wrote:

Quote:
Good to see some 'Sabotage' love.


Isn't "Symptom Of The Universe" one of the greatest heavy metal anthems?

Deni

Definitely. Very Happy
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kzr750r1



Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 683
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since this has turned into a BS discussion. Razz

We were regularly playing club that was attached to a Bowling Alley in the late 90's. The manager loaded the juke box with all kinds of early metal and hard rock CD's. I had completely missed Masters of Realty until one evening Lord of this World began playing... Never heard it till then.

Bought the CD the next day. I have to agree on two things. Awesome guitar tone and the lyrics touched me. Loved it! Was a bit embarrassed I had never heard it before, but, it was a lucky gift to save this gem for myself later in life. Smile
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Elohim



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 4891
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ApolloXI wrote:
Deni wrote:
ApolloXI wrote:

Quote:
Good to see some 'Sabotage' love.


Isn't "Symptom Of The Universe" one of the greatest heavy metal anthems?

Deni

Definitely. Very Happy


I'm with you guys on this one. Hearing 'Hole in the sky' made me wonder where Savatage found their main riff for the track 'Devastation'.
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V-GER



Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 625
Location: Florida, USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elohim wrote:
I'm with you guys on this one. Hearing 'Hole in the sky' made me wonder where Savatage found their main riff for the track 'Devastation'.


I will have to check this one out. Probably one of those coincidences!
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Knucklehead



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 3780
Location: Atlanta, Georgia

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first album I heard was Paranoid and it must have been the summer of 1983 or so. My friend and I listened to it all summer, non-stop, on his shoebox-sized tape player. (I know some of you remember those, with the controls on one end and the mono speaker on the other.)

I have to agree with most, that the first six are classics, with the exception, I think, of Volume 4. There are some great songs, to be sure -- "Snowblind," "Tomorrow's Dream," and "Laguna Sunrise" are certainly among them. But a large number of songs on that album don't do much for me.

Having said all of that, Master of Reality may very well be my favorite album by Sabbath.
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Opolus



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 344
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Knucklehead wrote:
I have to agree with most, that the first six are classics, with the exception, I think, of Volume 4. There are some great songs, to be sure -- "Snowblind," "Tomorrow's Dream," and "Laguna Sunrise" are certainly among them. But a large number of songs on that album don't do much for me.


Shocked

"Wheels Of Confusion", anyone? Idea
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