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Delineation II: Ascension (Redux) Feb. 16, 2010
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DrMorbid
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:15 am    Post subject: Delineation II: Ascension (Redux) Feb. 16, 2010 Reply with quote

Ascension (Redux)


Ascension (Sept. 2009)
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Elohim



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally begin to understand what fascinates Tom about Roman Catholicism... It's the contradiction.
As is stated in the bible that you shall not worship graven images. Then what is that what is hanging there in the church? The church presents an image of themselves as 'good', why have they done such horrendous things?

Tom's hate for christianity is put there very eloquent and very to the point. It gives me ammunition when the witnesses of Jehova are standing on my doorstep.
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Marcin



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of big monumental replicas. In my home town there are few "houses of the GREAT lord" but only one has this 7 m. high crucifix.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Pia_antoni_prezbiterium.JPG

Wood-made coverd with bronze by Berthold Müller is another sign of religion's power over grey, weak, mentaly disabled ones.
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DrMorbid
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dresden Frauenkirche

A symbol of how people, claiming to be religious, would rather raise €200 million for a single monument, rather than for such things as sanitation of Dresden's schools, fixing our pitiful infrastructure, hiring physicians like everywhere else in the world, instead of reducing staff and leaving unqualified physicians alone in needed departments, and various other issues. Maybe even help feed and train the poor. I'm not a fan of the open troughs in bathrooms and common open drainage troughs in the floors, either. Flush, and everyone sees where it goes.

And they also have the nerve to ask for entrance fees, then donations on the way out, despite getting money from the church tax that's almost impossible to get out of. It took us forever, then the church sent us a nice letter that we have to make another payment to buy our way out of the tax and they happily already deducted it from our account.
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DrMorbid
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elohim wrote:
I finally begin to understand what fascinates Tom about Roman Catholicism... It's the contradiction.
As is stated in the bible that you shall not worship graven images. Then what is that what is hanging there in the church? The church presents an image of themselves as 'good', why have they done such horrendous things?

Tom's hate for christianity is put there very eloquent and very to the point. It gives me ammunition when the witnesses of Jehova are standing on my doorstep.


Is Tom's hate specifically Roman Catholicism, or Christianity, as a whole?

To me, Christianity, and this concept of a savior, is the ultimate guilt-trip. "He died for you because he loves you, so be a good boy and/or girl", not drawing from the internal concept of good and what will in the long run help yourself and society.

As far as what the church has done- it's not only the church, but all religion. I'm sure some will present exceptions, but in the end, it's a power struggle, money, and control. Religion gets free passes through a lot of this by declaring their mission for the betterment of society and for god, you know, like telling people in Africa and India that despite HIV, that god doesn't want them to use condoms. Have babies! God (AKA society) will take care of them for you! Rewards in the afterlife!

Horrendous things were done, perhaps to increase obedience in an era of disobedience. You guys here are historians, not me, but it can generally be boiled down to threat, insecurity, and similar feelings. So instill fear and return to control through dependency. It's not too different from extreme socialism, I guess. Not the totalitarian kind (not necessarily), but making people fear taking chances, leaving the state, for fear of loss of their benefits and position, and expectations of rewards on the back end, like dogs.
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Wolfborn



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elohim wrote:
It's the contradiction.


I'm not native english speaker, but I do believe that the correct word is hypocrisy?
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Marcin



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrMorbid wrote:
Elohim wrote:
I finally begin to understand what fascinates Tom about Roman Catholicism... It's the contradiction.
As is stated in the bible that you shall not worship graven images. Then what is that what is hanging there in the church? The church presents an image of themselves as 'good', why have they done such horrendous things?

Tom's hate for christianity is put there very eloquent and very to the point. It gives me ammunition when the witnesses of Jehova are standing on my doorstep.


Is Tom's hate specifically Roman Catholicism, or Christianity, as a whole?

To me, Christianity, and this concept of a savior, is the ultimate guilt-trip. "He died for you because he loves you, so be a good boy and/or girl", not drawing from the internal concept of good and what will in the long run help yourself and society.

As far as what the church has done- it's not only the church, but all religion. I'm sure some will present exceptions, but in the end, it's a power struggle, money, and control. Religion gets free passes through a lot of this by declaring their mission for the betterment of society and for god, you know, like telling people in Africa and India that despite HIV, that god doesn't want them to use condoms. Have babies! God (AKA society) will take care of them for you! Rewards in the afterlife!

Horrendous things were done, perhaps to increase obedience in an era of disobedience. You guys here are historians, not me, but it can generally be boiled down to threat, insecurity, and similar feelings. So instill fear and return to control through dependency. It's not too different from extreme socialism, I guess. Not the totalitarian kind (not necessarily), but making people fear taking chances, leaving the state, for fear of loss of their benefits and position, and expectations of rewards on the back end, like dogs.


Like great George Carlin said; God will judge us and send us to hell (or heaven) where we will be tortured, raped, grinded and boiled etc BUT... HE LOVES US...
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Elohim



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this particular case it's Roman Catholicism. He sums quite some sins up that are foremost committed by the catholics: especially the crusades and the witchhunts. He hates christianity as a whole. And every subdivision of christianity, be it the protestants, be it the mormons, be it the witnesses of Jehova or what small splintergroups there might be. Wolfborn is on the right track when he says 'hypocrisy'. Deeds are done that are considered 'evil' or even contradict the bible as a scripture. But the Bible is no different compared to the Quoran, kill the opponents of the faith. Both texts have this LITERALLY in their 'holy' scripture. I guess it's not only 'christianity' Tom hates but religion as a whole hahaha.

As for religion: I stick to the jpeg that D once posted on the general discussion forum: grown ups with imaginary friends are stupid.

And George Carlin, yeah he is a classic. Anyone seen 'Dogma' by Kevin Smith? He plays a cardinal there who tries to popularize Roman Catholicism with a modern approach of the messiah: the Buddy Jesus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BEZaPN8gUY
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Svartmetall



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always liked this description of Christianity:

"The belief that some cosmic Jewish zombie - who is his own father - can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that's present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

Yup. Makes perfect sense."
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LK Thurisaz



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christianity/Judiasm/Islam are the biggest weapons of mass destruction ever invented.
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SigSwat551



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It goes further then religion. Everything can be used to gain power: racial differences, cultural differences etc. etc. Key here is you:

1) form a tribe (an entity that has one or more things in common like the aforementioned items).
2)Then you blame another tribe for all the problems in the world (because we are all gods so we can't blame ourself right?).
3) Go to war with another tribe.
4) Repeat the aforementioned steps until the end of times.
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Marcin



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SigSwat551 wrote:
It goes further then religion. Everything can be used to gain power: racial differences, cultural differences etc. etc. Key here is you:

1) form a tribe (an entity that has one or more things in common like the aforementioned items).
2)Then you blame another tribe for all the problems in the world (because we are all gods so we can't blame ourself right?).
3) Go to war with another tribe.
4) Repeat the aforementioned steps until the end of times.


And saying crap about some holy, omnipresent spirit which has a "plan" towards us.
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SigSwat551



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is indeed one method to start a tribe. There will always be believers no matter how big the nonsense is that you are selling. In general the tribe itself is not a homogenous thing because you can decompose the tribe into smaller clusters until you reach the end of the decomposition: a single human being -> a god with needs that must be satisfied.
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V-GER



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are a tribe no?
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DrMorbid
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm waiting to see the worst, and see if we resort to being god-fearing cannibals. We worship blood and body parts of people before us, even though that's against christianity, so why not go one step further into cannibalism, like the movie The Road showed.
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